[00:00:00] Three, two. Thank you for joining us for Small Talks for Big Change, where we help simplify financial topics to help with your financial wellness. Hi everyone out there and thank you for joining us today. We are beginning a mini series on Elder Financial Abuse for National Elder Abuse Awareness Month, which happens every June, and we’re kicking off the series with a talk from an in-house expert here at Patelco Erwin Lemi.
Who is a Patelco fraud prevention team member with 20 years of experience in helping mitigate fraud. Now, elder financial abuse is serious folks, and it can have devastating consequences for victims, including loss of savings. Inability to afford care and housing insecurity. It can also lead to depression, anxiety, and other mental health problems.
And victims may experience a loss of trust and others in increased isolation. So, Rin, we are so glad to have you with us today to talk about this important topic. Good [00:01:00] afternoon. Thanks for having me. All right. So tell us a little bit about your experience in working with fraud cases over your 20 year career and what you do here at Patelco.
So my fraud background started in over, 20 years ago. First employer, I started with cards, specifically credit cards, and, adapted to both credit cards as well as debit cards. And, that expanded to retail fraud, specifically de deposit fraud. Following that employer, , the second employer, in addition to retail fraud or deposit fraud, I was, , trained or rather worked on, , securities fraud as well as investment fraud.
From there, education has been through,, fraud associations like the A CFE associated, certified Fraud investigators as well as the IFCI, , which is an association as well. They do provide ongoing, fraud training for current fraud [00:02:00] trends. And what led me here was, from.
No longer wanting to work in San Francisco anymore. It’s, , I actually live locally and I’m, I’m here within 15 minutes. So, have been here since 2018 and enjoy it. Great. And then, as part of your fraud prevention team, what do you guys do to help our members, every day help mitigate fraud or help on the backend if fraud has happened?
I would say a lot of prevention. Without sounding biased, I would say, Patelco has some of the best, analysts and investigators within the industry. We do, a lot of fraud prevention, whether it’s fraud trends or , activity that. We deem as being, suspicious or, if we have to reach out to a member, that we notice abnormalities in the activities, we do reach out and, , take necessary action to, ensure that they are not exposed to losses or fraud.
[00:03:00] Yeah, and I would imagine over those 20 years you’ve kind of seen it all. Can you take us through, you know, what fraud looked like 20 years ago versus. Maybe how technology is, is changing things and worsening things, most likely. So when I first got started, in cards, everything was manual to a point where, each case was worked or organized with a manila folder, and, nothing was automated.
This is prior to, or at the advent or the creation of the internet. So we didn’t have a, let’s just say we didn’t have a web-based application and or a graphic user interface of gui, to, have an automation and, everything was done manually, members at that time. The kind of fraud that they experienced when it was elder abuse was specifically, financial exploitation.
Mm-hmm. Which, happens, if I, I’m mistaken, the [00:04:00] statistics is, the suspect is, known by the, victim 95% of the time. Yeah. Whereas, now, I don’t know what the stats are, but, I’d say the technology, the advent of the internet,, fraudsters have expanded in their creativity in attempting to defraud their victims.
Mm-hmm. And what are some of the most recent cases that you’ve seen here at Patelco? Related to our elders, I will say, that we see a lot is love scams. Mm-hmm. And the love scams are, in which our members meet, their so-called fiance who they’ve never met, through the internet. Our website particularly, Facebook, or even LinkedIn, LinkedIn, which is kind of interesting, is that it’s used for professional networking.
Mm-hmm. However, there are some, bad actors or catfish profiles where they prey on, the elderly and, try to convince them to send, from what I’ve seen, sometimes five figures, six figures, and we catch it. And then [00:05:00] now that there’s so many payment options that exist today, what’s your advice for elders or people in general when it comes to sending anyone money of any variety and of any type of payment?
If it seems suspicious, do not send it out and to do not send money out to anybody you have not physically met or don’t have, extended history of knowing. For example, we always look at for, if say for example, a wire is going out and the beneficiary is located, say in like, say Florida.
Mm-hmm. But it shows the activity where, the originator rather the, member doesn’t know anybody from Florida. And, they pretty much, divulge the truth behind it. The instructions, the type of wire, , after our analysts or investigators, do probe and ask them very extensive questions and stop them from losing money.
Yeah. And I’m gonna guess, let’s ask [00:06:00] you over those 20 years, are the root causes that are elder populations that fall for these scams the same? Are we talking about isolation and vulnerability? I mean, those type of things remain the same. It’s just Yes. The methods by which they get the money may be different.
Yes. Most of the time. Like you said, isolation. But I would also say, a lot of the times it’s the victim is. Is alone, they’re lonely. They’re either widowed or, they’re looking for love. The fraudster is preying on their, vulnerability or their, insecurities or their self-esteem, and they, they fall for it.
Yeah. It’s just the methods by which they get the money are a lot more these days. Correct. For seniors trying to keep up with technology. What’s your best recommendations for safeguarding their identity online? Do not put personal information on a website. Yeah. [00:07:00] Even this most simplest thing, like your favorite color or the name of your dog or, where you were born.
Like for example, you’ll notice that like say on, on social media, there’s these. The thought bubbles. Yeah. Or how you’re feeling today or, or even like surveys. Mm-hmm. And when you complete those surveys, basically what you’re doing is you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re completing a survey about yourself, traits about yourself.
And what happens is the audience, the fraud, the fraudster, takes a look at that and, you know, they’ll reach out to you and they’ll say, Hey, I didn’t know that you shopped at so and so, like mm-hmm. Or I didn’t know your favorite or The name of your dog is the same name as my dog. And, they gained their trust mm-hmm.
To somebody who they’ve never met. And how much of our fraud with our elderly are you seeing are clicking on malicious links or replying to a text message that’s, that’s fraudulent. How much of that technology and trying to keep up with it, you think is [00:08:00] attributing to the problem? I, I don’t know what the percentage is, but I would say it’s pretty high.
Because this generation’s not very familiar about technology. Like for example, , like you say the ad bubble or, phishing, emails or anything that has to do with like social media. They go ahead and click it. Or, when they click, if they receive like a say for example, an email for ransomware, don’t realize that they’re clicking on malware.
Mm-hmm. , There’s something wrong with your account. Please click this now to make a payment. And they click it anyway. And then, , they, in order to, , gain access back to their computer. They, either, , wire the money, z the money or, and or allow, , proxy, the, , fraudster into their computer.
Mm-hmm. And what happens from there is that the fraudster steals information, personal information of the victim. Yeah. And I think the reality is our seniors, that a lot of them are [00:09:00] lonely and we can’t be on top of them all the time, and we think we’re doing our part with helping, educate them and provide them with the most recent scam information.
But for anyone that’s a caregiver or family member or neighbor, anyone that engages with a senior person, what’s your best advice to help increase their awareness? Education. I always keep them, educated and apprised of any new fraud schemes and trends. I do know that, Patelco, we do our, , best in due diligence by providing literature.
Mm-hmm. About, fraud trends that do happen, best practices. I would also say that if you, , are a caregiver or even. A member and you have questions about it, what you may receive and you’re suspicious about it, feel free to call us. Always call us. That’s what we’re here for. We can identify it for you.
Yeah. And what about just general check-ins, just to, you know, make sure our seniors aren’t lonely or they have somebody to talk to, or if they did get a suspicious text [00:10:00] message or an email, they can run it by you. How do you broach that subject so that you’re not coming across as. That they do have a problem or that it is occurring, how do you, how do you broach that conversation?
We always let them know that we’re here for them. Yeah. And, we’re here to protect them and, , we do this so, , they don’t incur any losses where it’s irre, retrievable or reversible. And that’s what we’re here for. And, there’s no shame in admitting what may have happened or like, for example, love scams a lot of the time.
, Most of the time, , the members are, our members are embarrassed to tell us what happened. Mm-hmm. Because they don’t wanna seem like, they don’t wanna admit that they may have, compromised their, , their information or, or their, account information. I. By giving everything to a fraudster.
So what happens if something does occur and they need to reach out to someone at Patelco? Can you talk about our MCC fraud team? We do have a MCC, a [00:11:00] frontline for fraud. From there, they, they pretty much let us know what happened and, we do probe, , and we determine, based on the testimony.
If a fraud incident did in fact occur involving elder, the elder victim from there, as mandated reporters, we do have to complete an a PS report within the county that, that they reside in. And we do set up cases, whether it’s an attempt or if it was a successful fraud incident. And this is a 1-800-HOTLINE that they, that our members can call if something does happen and they can get support from our team.
Yes. Yes. Okay. And then if something were to occur, this hotline, that we have through our call center, what, what is the experience like?
, So we’re encouraging our folks out there to call and start the conversation with us, but it’s a, no shame type of situation where, we also have a support team that is gonna investigate the situation for them. [00:12:00] Correct. I would say that we’re in absolutely no judgment. Yeah, because we want to provide the best, investigation as well as, mitigation and remedy as possible.
We want to ensure that the member experience is positive, and let them know that that’s what we’re here for. Okay, perfect. Well, Erwin, thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks for having me and sharing your expertise. That’s gonna do it today for small talks for big change, where we help simplify financial topics to help with your financial wellness.
We’ll see you next time folks. Patelco Credit Union is insured by NCUA.